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Premier's reply to debate on  State of the Province Address speech
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Speeches and Media Releases
 Premier's Office

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EASTERN CAPE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT

PREMIERS REPLY TO DEBATE OF THE STATE OF THE PROVINCE ADDRESS  DELIVERED

ON 16 FEBRUARY 2000

The PREMIER: Mr Speaker and Hon members of the House, let me also join you in bidding a hearty welcome to our visitors from Sweden.  I do 
so for two reasons. Firstly, the Swedish Government and the Swedish people ranked amongst some of the best allies we had as we fought for 
the liberation of this country.  And at a cultural level, ISAC, which was a cultural sport coalition played a very outstanding role. It is 
therefore pleasing to see people from that part of the world, even at this point in time while we are still wrestling with taking forward 
the ideals for which we fought. We are glad that you have not abandoned us.  I welcome you very heartily.  Having been a Boy Scout for 
seven years myself ...... I wish to urge you to keep the warm relationship with the Youth Commission. Because one of the biggest challenges 
that our country is facing is the reconstruction of the mores of our youth, the morality of our society and especially the discipline of 
our young people, which  has gone to the dogs.  Somebody has to pick it up; it is not going to be enough for their parents to do so.  It 
cannot be enough for the schools to do so.

My limited experience over those seven years led me to believe that the Scout movement has such capacities within itself, which are evident 
even to this day. After 56 years I can no longer pass a running tap; I have to turn it off.  I cannot pass a piece of paper flying around; 
I have to pick it up.  Those are some of the values that were instilled in some of us by the Scout movement.

If we can find a way of developing programmes for our young people it will be something like that.  I am not saying that you should form a 
Scouts movement - if you want to, that is fine - but if you think we can create something like that, Mr Fani will be able to help you 
analyse what is most suitable in this regard.   Welcome heartily!

Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to congratulate Cameroon, the new champions of the Africa Cup of Nations. And, of course, the 
first champions of this century of that very important trophy.  We must lament the fact that it was not our boys who managed to take the 
trophy at the end of the day. But we must also concede that the form they showed during that week did not bring them anywhere near being 
deserving champions at all.  If they cannot begin to build the passion to win for their country, they must kiss all trophies goodbye.  I am 
not sad we lost; I think justice was done.  It would have been unfair for a less capable side to win on that particular day. As I said the 
other day, even our own Umtata Bucks would have done better in that match.

Let me now revert to the debates that ensued after I presented my Opening Address. I mentioned in the first paragraph of that address that 
an Opening Address is an endeavour to explain which direction we are taking and why we are taking that particular route.  I think I have 
tried to do that, and nobody has disagreed.  As a matter of fact, everybody tended to ask questions other than: Why did you choose this 
route?   Not one person asked that question.

The situation at Volkswagen South Africa invariably took the centre stage on Monday and correctly occupied a top slot in the minds of the 
parties and Hon members present.  This had to be so because we have a very serious situation when it comes to unemployment. And it is a 
very serious threat to the employment-creation that was taking place at Volkswagen.

This was clear in the snap debate on Monday. However, the debate was also a further confirmation of what we raised in the address, namely, 
the need to understand what democracy is and what politicking is.  Some parties clearly do not understand the role of trade unions in a 
democratic situation. Nor do they understand the difference between democracy and anarchy.

Hon MEC Godongwana correctly pointed out the political role that trade unions must play in a democratic situation the world over.  And 
South Africa cannot be an exception in this regard.  This does not give workers the right to undermine the laws of the land and those of 
their unions - we cannot accept that either.

The situation at Volkswagen South Africa was also interesting.  The coincidence between the occurrence of the strike and the Davos 
conference in Switzerland, as well as a conference that was convened by the management of Volkswagen for investors in that motor industry 
was too suspicious to be true.  When political parties scavenge on carrion there is no future for either such parties or for trade unions 
born of such endeavours.

The old JMC approach of destabilising other parties belongs to the dustbin of history - to Jurassic Park, as Hon Ms Nash put it. We should 
not try to rehatch those strategies. They have no future and cannot help our province or our people. Hon Ms Nash has correctly captured the 
spirit of the address. We appreciate that. She correctly pointed out that we always aim for the news headlines and miss the point.

This is what I complained about the first time I came to this House - that we tend to stand up and address ourselves to the media, rather 
than addressing ourselves to the issues.  We have to keep on trying to address issues, rather than distorting facts only to score political 
points.  We must try to make a contribution.  This does not come from general litanies of how many crimes have been committed.  That is 
available in the reports. We can ask Hon MEC Neer to submit those reports if we do not know what they contain. This one can read in the 
Daily Dispatch every day. Every morning Umhlobo Wenene gives an update of  what crimes have been committed.

The desire for opposition parties to be part of the anti-corruption forum is very welcome.  But Hon members should remember what the summit 
decided on these issues.  We must remember that the resolutions that were taken by that summit were taken by all of us, and now is the time 
to implement those resolutions.

On education, the Hon Leader of the Opposition asked for comments. This is simplistic, because we cannot just comment on the matriculation  
results. That is very simplistic.  Even my grandmother can do that, because she saw the results - they are in the newspapers.  If one wants 
to address the education issue, the correct approach is a holistic one in respect of the learning cycle. One cannot ask a child: Why did 
you fail Std 10? if one has not been following the progress that child has been making since entering the education cycle.  That is what 
we would rather focus on. A serious adult will know that turning an education system around will not take place overnight.  Bantu education 
was introduced in 1954.  It only caught up with us in 1962.  It cannot be simply a turning of the sword, it does not work like that.  
Governance does not work like that.

Hon Chief Gwadiso avers that  Government must lead - and it must lead indeed.  We fully agree with the Hon member.  But when it does lead, 
it must be taken seriously. When we say turn left, they should not ask us: Are you serious?

Circumcision has led to many deaths in this country. A death of our own people and dying is not a cultural or traditional issue.  It is a 
serious matter of futurity; it is a serious matter of health.  And to say such things must reside within the spheres of traditional 
leadership, he is not being serious about the leadership of Government.  We must lead on these issues and we must take action.

We are not going to tell these boys how they should be circumcised.  I am not going to tell Ingcibi namakhankatha how to do their work. 
Truly, that belongs to the traditional communities themselves.  Mark my words. I am not addressing the traditional leaders; I am addressing 
the traditional communities, because the knowledge of culture and tradition is not a monopoly of the traditional leadership.

In 1991 I went to Mount Fletcher to intervene, Comrade Pumulo, when a traditional leader was being thrown out by his own subjects on the 
very basis of circumcision.  I will not mention the name, but he is the reigning Chief there now. We had to intervene and stabilise the 
situation for him to rule over his people, because we are also from those communities. We are not just people who fell from the sky who 
have no notion what these matters are all about.

While I am on the question of circumcision I really want to agree with the Hon Chief.  These things do not belong to the media.  I felt 
naked last night, very naked indeed, watching the programme Special Assignment.  It was really repulsive.  Perhaps I am a child of my 
culture -  I cannot deny that - but I felt very naked.  Let me just stop there.

Indices for economic performance are limited in reflecting the true situation.  We agree entirely with the Hon Mkabile.  His input is also 
very much appreciated.  It is encouraging, because it shows the ability to deal with issues.  This is so because unless we learn to grapple 
with theoretical thought, we will always end up on the side of lamentations.

Unfortunately in politics this is a stark reality, this is the truth.  One either knows politics, or one does not. It is one thing to know 
how many bridges have collapsed and how many roads are corroded; it is another to know politics - and politics are not a heritage. One 
learns politics, and unless one first learns  the theory of politicking, one is not going to be able to understand what is going on in 
society.

Hon Chief, we really appreciate your efforts.  I am not recruiting you.  I know I am not going to succeed in that regard, but I am simply 
saying - you have really done us proud.  This Hon member is indeed worth emulating by other parties and we also appreciate the scientific 
approach followed by MECs in giving their input in the discussion.  They researched their subject and they gave the scientific facts, not 
input based on emotions.

Hon Mr Martin, Sir you did well to sell the organisation you come from. [Laughter.] But this has nothing to do with the debate. Hon  
Members of Parliament are paid for the purpose of taking those things that you mentioned here to the Department.   When the pensioners do 
not receive their pension the primary responsibility of an Hon member of the House is to take the names to the Department concerned and 
have the situation corrected.

If you cannot do that you are not doing them well you are only doing a PRO exercise for yourself and  you are not solving the problem.  
Because the Hon MEC does not want to listen to generalities that people do not receive their pensions and their wages are cut and all.  
That does not help, we want specifics here.  I always make the example of Xelexwa, Mr Liberty.

This blind old man who was crying like you were doing about his pension that had not been paid for 18 months.  We asked him what his name 
was and he gave us his name.  The next time I saw him he was crying again with excitement.  He said: I have never seen so much money in my 
lifetime.  I asked: How did you see it? You said you were blind? He said: I could feel it, it was so very much.

This is the function of public representatives.  Take these issues to where they belong and have them sorted out and follow up on that.   
If they do not solve them, follow up on that and bring them to me, and then I can deal with the Departments that default.  This is how 
these matters are dealt with and we really want you to appreciate that we are  giving you this information because you are a new member 
here. We do not want you to have the  wrong impression of what you have been appointed to do.  You have not been appointed to be a 
lamenter.  You can read that in the Old Testament.

The DP argues that there is a contradiction between decentralisation and the districts that we are establishing.  A number of them raise 
this issue. We agree there is an apparent contradiction - apparent does not mean the real thing. We continue to insist that where lower 
structures are unable to carry out their functions we must take over that function and make it work - just as you appointed Errol Moorcroft 
to deal with that problem in Gauteng. There is nothing wrong with that if your lower structure does not perform well it is the 
responsibility of the senior structure to intervene.  And when the problem has been resolved,  you let them be and monitor them again.  
This is no confusion on our part.  It is not going to lead us into the old debate of centralisation, devolution of power and all those 
issues. That is an old 1987 debate - I read that in prison when they were heading for the elections at that time.  But Luipert has written 
a very nice book, Hon Mr Trent, on those issues - devolution of power, decentralisation of power and we can read that.  What we are doing 
is decentralising power, we are not devolving it, but decentralising it.

Hon Ms Majokweni did not read,  or understand my address.  We stated categorically that poverty has a direct bearing on criminality.  That 
is what we say. It is there in black and white.  But we also say how poverty should be dealt with.  Unfortunately the lady slipped into the 
pedantic lamentation route and she just gave lamentations and further lamentations. I want to ask this House to consider having performance 
agreements for its Hon members.  This might lift the level of our debates.

Hon Mr de Wet correctly points out that the same parties think that all they are here for is to criticise, which is why they could not 
debate the speech, Mr de Wet.  But the sad thing is they do not even know how to criticise. The story goes that Adolf Hitler had a 
kleptomaniac of a son, whom he disowned. Not because he disapproved of his stealing, but because his son could not steal properly and he 
was arrested every time he tried to steal.  And he said you are not even good in what you are doing, which is wrong.

This is the problem we are encountering here.  We are not saying that parties should not criticise, but in debate criticism is a scheme.  
Hon Mr De Wet also raised a very serious matter in the debate, namely the remobilisation of the right wing and the crisis that it is 
creating for Austria.

For instance, I was addressing the Eastern Cape Council of Churches just about an hour ago in East London raising this very same issue - 
the upsurge of right-wingism in South Africa and the world in general.  These are very serious developments.  Their counterparts in this 
country had better look deep into their actions before they begin to revel in this kind of activity.

Our country cannot afford to be isolated by the free world again.  Austria, only after a few weeks, is already beginning to squeal because 
they are feeling the pain of isolation.  We do not want to feel more pain than we do now, because our economy is intertwined with the 
economy of the world.

We are also advised by the DP that the best way to defeat racism is not to talk about it. So said Hon ... What is his name? ... Mr Trollip.  
I am sorry for forgetting your name, but you always forget ours.  I listened to Mr Malherbe not remembering who Mr Nomgwango was the other 
day.

Both the Poles and the Germans pondered the same questions for a very long time after World War II.  Shall we talk about these things or 
shall we pretend they never happened?  The correct conclusion that they arrived at about the Nazi atrocities was that it was therapeutic to 
talk about these matters - therapeutic for both the victims as well as the perpetrators and their descendants, because the children must 
know what happened. Not the children who go to that Felicia Mabuza show!  We do not want to know how to live our lives and by the same 
token they go right back into what they do not want to know.  Read the many cases in North West and Mpumalanga and Northern Province. They 
do not want to know and they are reverting right back to that. Why should the situation be different in South Africa?  If the formula 
worked for Europe and Germany, if it worked for the Americans, it must also work for us.   Let us talk about it, let us not hide anything 
so that everybody knows what is going on and all of us can deal with it.

The DP is less than serious in dealing with farm schools. Hon Mr Smiles falls into the trap of looking at a few schools, which is what Ms 
Luke is doing.  She looks at a few schools that are electrified, but she forgets that the majority of the farm schools do not have 
electricity and she says 700 schools will be closed down if electricity is not paid.  Why should they when they do not have electricity in 
the first place?.  And Hon Mr Smiles falls into that trap of confusing the trees for the forest. I am not quite sure which Yellowwood he is 
referring to.  He mentioned a Yellowwood school.  As a matter of fact there are two schools there and both of them are called Yellowwoods.  
One is a farm school; the other  is a depot of St Andrews and I am not sure which one he was referring to.  However, if he is you are 
talking about the farm school Yellowwoods, they do not want to go to that school. They want to go to Adelaide or Fort Beaufort.  That is 
what they themselves want. The farm school in Kroomi just a few kilometres from Fort Beaufort and Adelaide.  The other  is a satellite of 
St Andrews.

Hon Mr Smiles also raises the question of teacher travelling if we transform farm schools.  The truth of the matter is that travelling will 
be eliminated.  These farm schoolteachers do not come from the farms, they come from the town.  All of them without exception  come from 
the town. You must go to Tambokiesfontein. There is a farm school there.  I was talking to Mr Wentzel about that school just before 
December.  The farmers are contemplating - even without us, Hon MEC - closing down the school  because of the trauma that those kids are 
going through. They travel half the day to the school and as soon as they reach there they must travel back home.  But by the time they get 
to school the teachers are not there; they are still in Adelaide and eventually they reach the school, normally on Wednesday.  On Thursday 
they go back to Adelaide.

These are the things we must eliminate.  The teachers should reside where the school is and the children should reside where the school is.  
This is what happens to other race groups and this is what must happen to our children too.  The truth of the matter is that we are dealing 
with the essence of transformation - the transformation of the quality of the education that our children receive.

Hon Mr Liberty correctly captures the difficulties encountered by children of farm labourers.  Our children must be liberated from a 
natural order of succession as farm workers.  It will be very interesting for Hon members to read some of the Hansard documents or the 
reports of the 1948 period and see the submissions of the South African Agricultural Union fighting against section 10 of the Influx 
Control Act.

They were resisting it - it is very interesting - but for different reasons.  They are not saying let everybody go and stay in town.  They 
were saying let some go to town and provide the labour, but we want the children of our labourers  here because they must continue to work 
on the farms.  We do not want that kind of succession.  We have to change the situation just as the rest of education must improve in order 
for our people to defeat poverty and crime.

Hon Mr Liberty is right. We agree with him that our children must be accessible to what all of us have access to.

What Hon Mr Malherbe mentioned on agriculture is very important.  Most of it is, of course, already policy and it is in the plans of the 
Department of Agriculture.  When the Hon MEC submits his policy speech you will hear these things.

The Integrated Livestock and Crop Development Strategy, as well as the Eastern Cape Meat Production and Marketing Strategy, are all 
products of participatory democratic involvement by organised agriculture, by stock owners, the National Wool Growers Association, BKB, 
Dohne Merino. All these participated in the production of those strategies.  Nampo and the ARC in Middleburg, they all also took part in 
these things.

If there are other individuals who want to volunteer their expertise, they are all welcome to approach the Hon the MEC.  We will not know 
who they are or where they are but if they come forward their skills and assistance will be very welcome.

Hon Mr Smiles says they accept a call for statesmanship cautiously and Hon Mr Mhlati shakes his head dismissively when the Hon MEC outlines 
the meaning of the municipal demarcation process.  Both gestures are indicative of the unwillingness of some of the Hon  members of this 
House to believe anything that we say.  Because we say it, it cannot be true.  Somebody else must say it, then it will be true. [Laughter.]

It reminds me of a speech I made in Umtata in 1991.  I was denouncing the involvement of the NP in the destabilisation of SWAPO in Namibia 
before the elections of Namibia.  And I was denounced left right and centre for propagandising the matter.  A few months later Pik Botha 
went to confess that - yes indeed we destabilised SWAPO because they were our enemy and we destabilised our enemy.  When we say it, it is 
not true.  Somebody else must say it for it to be true.  Hence the vigorous shaking of heads.

We welcome the challenge and priorities that the parties have put forward,  but most of them are in the speech.  And I think they are only 
raising them for the purpose of Hansard.  Some parties, unlike those that come from the liberation movement, judge the ability of their 
members on how many times they rise and talk.  We do not. We judge them by the quality of what they say when they rise and talk.  As Chief 
Albert Luthuli said, even if you do not speak you are still a man.

So they rise because they wanted to record this.  That is fine, but we are saying that these proposals are already  in black and white in 
these documents as well as in the speech.  But when they distort the facts that raises a very serious issue. And I want to challenge them 
to charge us for misleading this House.  And if they fail to do so, as they will, they themselves must be charged for misleading the 
people.

Perhaps, Mr Speaker, the Rules Committee must begin to look at this situation.  It cannot be right for members to just rise and make  wild 
assertions.   We listened to the Hon Mhlati just the other day making a bold claim about South Africa giving money to Zimbabwe.  And he 
knew that was not true.  He knew that he was not telling the truth, but there is no regulation in the House to censure him for saying so.  
We must develop that.

The regulation only censures us who come from the Executive.  It can? We certainly will.  I will certainly follow that up.  Thank you very 
much.  Because we cannot allow this kind of irresponsibility - people making these wild statements.

The Hon Mkabile articulately depicted disparities, which are the legacy of the past.  He challenges us to improve the situation.  We 
welcome the challenge and our priorities in service delivery attempt to do just that.  They are not adequate.  We explained that when we 
tried to discuss the economic stringencies. They are not adequate, but we nevertheless tried to do that within those stringencies.

Hon Mr Trent says that we must arrest the criminals.  We  agree with him but we also live within what people who speak English call the 
rule of law.  No, one of you did that.  We have to uphold the rule of law.  Criminals have to have access to the justice procedures. It is 
unbelievable, and sometimes I go crazy. I say: go and arrest them.  And the DG  says: you cannot say that because the law says these are 
the steps that must be followed.  This is the unfortunate thing. But that is the rule of law. We have accepted it and we must uphold it.

How will opposition parties monitor this?, asks the Hon Mkabile. Well, this again is a function of all members of the Legislature: to 
monitor the performance of Government departments.  Each and every department will come here and present its programmes.  It is then 
incumbent upon the Hon members to monitor that, follow that up and expose them if they do not.

And one has the right, by the way, when they come here asking for more funds not to vote for those funds, because they will have not 
performed in the previous budget what they said they would do with that budget.  This is the responsibility of this House.  We invite you 
to do that monitoring and oversight as ruthlessly as possible.  I always say to the Chairperson of the Finance Committee that it has to be 
done ruthlessly, because unless it is done thus, it cannot be done right.

Hon Motsilili raised the question of roads in Mount Fletcher.  What are we doing about it?  Well, we have not only assessed the roads but 
we are also doing something about it.  The sad truth is that even the assessment was completed about two or three weeks ago.  It has had to 
be revamped in the light of the rains last night.  So we have reassessed that situation - in fact we were even doing so this morning.  We 
received information about three more roads that were washed away last night and that has also been included in the rest of the problems 
that we have.

We have also set up a task team in Cape Town led by the Deputy Chief Whip to pressurise the implementation of what we have agreed upon.  
What have we agreed upon?  We have agreed with the Ministry of Defence that in the Defence Force we have some of the best qualified road 
engineers in the country and they are sitting there not doing anything.

Nobody is going to attack us - not even Lesotho will dare think about that.  But every day and every month they construct roads and bridges 
and blast them as part of their "get fit" and "get ready" exercises.  And we propose to the Ministry that we must go into a joint venture - 
the province and the Ministry -  to deploy their engineers as a matter of great urgency to come and restore the broken bridges and the 
washed-away culverts, and in this way help us attend to these roads as a matter of urgency.

Jeff Doidge and his team are working very hard on this, and we know now that the Ministry has already accepted this. The Department must 
now implement it.   I phoned Jeff today to say: sit on them. After Cabinet today at 15h30  he must go back to the Minister of Defence to 
say there are three more bridges that have been washed away.  They must be added to that.

I cannot understand how the DP comes to the conclusion that I said nothing about the inadequacy of our Public Service.  I can only invite 
them to read page 9 of my Address.  It is there, page 9.  Read page 9 - it says that in so many words.

I agree with the Hon Neela Hoosain that we should develop penalties for MPLs who do not do their work.  We should also develop such 
penalties for mediocrity in the House debates.  Perhaps we should also evaluate whether the purpose for which these debates are meant is 
being achieved.

Some of the opposition MPLs are only here for the salaries and nothing else, judging by the standard of their debates or the absence 
thereof.   At least four of them simply have no clue why they are here.  For this reason I have not tried to reply to their input, lest the 
people fail to see the difference between my input and theirs.

 The last must go to those who have the capacity to understand.  What we are saying is this:

The challenges facing us in trying to build a non-racist and a non-sexist South Africa are not going to vanish overnight.  We have analysed 
the challenges correctly and nobody has proved us wrong during this debate. We have developed solutions which we think will work and nobody 
has said they will not.  Some simply say they do not believe it.

South Africa and the Eastern Cape have enough people of goodwill in this House and outside.

There are patriots and statespersons; and with these people from all walks of life we are absolutely confident that we shall forge forward 
and turn this province around.  Yes, we will turn this province around for a better life - not only that of the members of the ANC, because 
Government, like the rain of God, must fall upon all the bad and good without discrimination.  The better life that we will achieve, will 
be for all the people of this province.

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